Adam Lozinski:<\/strong> W Przemy\u015blu mieszkam od 1984 roku, a moja dzia\u0142alno\u015b\u0107 w Solidarno\u015bci zacz\u0119\u0142a si\u0119 wcze\u015bniej, w Gliwicach. W\u0142a\u015bciwie tam by\u0142y pocz\u0105tki, by\u0142em m\u0142odym nauczycielem, bo drugi rok pracy, kiedy w\u0142a\u015bnie powsta\u0142 zwi\u0105zek „Solidarno\u015b\u0107”. Akurat pewne wzgl\u0119dy sprawi\u0142y, \u017ce jako m\u0142ody nauczyciel, znalaz\u0142em si\u0119 w jego w\u0142adzach. Gliwice to jest du\u017ce miasto, 1000 cz\u0142onk\u00f3w by\u0142o w Komisji Zak\u0142adowej Nauczycieli, ja si\u0119 znalaz\u0142em w prezydium naszej Komisji Zak\u0142adowej. By\u0142em odpowiedzialny za kontakty z Sekcj\u0105 Regionaln\u0105 w Katowicach. Wspominam r\u00f3\u017cne rzeczy, pami\u0119tam, pogrzeb Prymasa Wyszy\u0144skiego; akurat wtedy odby\u0142a si\u0119 w Warszawie konferencja nauczycieli historii Solidarno\u015bci. Tam nie by\u0142o du\u017co ludzi, ze 40 os\u00f3b. Dyskutowali\u015bmy o potrzebie zmian w nauczaniu historii. Zachowa\u0142em nawet delegacje, mam potwierdzenie, \u017ce tam by\u0142em, ale nawet jej nie zrealizowa\u0142em. Mam je na pami\u0105tk\u0119, mog\u0119 pokaza\u0107. Takie s\u0105 wspomnienia.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Sure, such things are very valuable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Tak\u017ce do Przemy\u015bla przyby\u0142em w \u201984 roku. Przede wszystkim ze wzgl\u0119d\u00f3w rodzinnych, bo syn bardzo chorowa\u0142 na \u015al\u0105sku na drogi oddechowe. W 1984 roku przyby\u0142em do Przemy\u015bla, nie znaj\u0105c nikogo. I to nie by\u0142y \u0142atwe czasy dla obcych, bo na nich patrzono podejrzliwie. Pami\u0119tam tak\u0105 sytuacj\u0119, chocia\u017c inni zapomnieli o tym. Wprowadzili\u015bmy si\u0119 w lipcu, a we wrze\u015bniu og\u0142oszono w KIK-u (Klub Inteligencji Katolickiej), \u017ce potrzebuj\u0105 nauczycieli do pomocy, do nauczania. Wi\u0119c si\u0119 zg\u0142osi\u0142em. I wtedy m\u00f3j p\u00f3\u017aniejszy przyjaciel zapyta\u0142, kto mi poleci\u0142 to stanowisko. Odpowiedzia\u0142em, \u017ce nikt, bo dopiero przyjecha\u0142em do miasta. Na to us\u0142ysza\u0142em, \u017ce \u201etutaj agent\u00f3w nie potrzebujemy\u201d. To by\u0142o bardzo nieprzyjemne. Kolejnym razem dowiedzia\u0142em si\u0119, \u017ce ma by\u0107 spotkanie nauczycieli i Msza \u015aw. w ko\u015bciele \u015bw. Tr\u00f3jcy. Msza by\u0142a dla wszystkich o godzinie 15, a potem by\u0142 op\u0142atek dla nauczycieli, poszed\u0142em tam i pozna\u0142em nauczycieli z Solidarno\u015bci. W Przemy\u015blu pr\u0119\u017cnie dzia\u0142a\u0142o duszpasterstwo nauczycieli przy ko\u015bciele \u015bw. Tr\u00f3jcy, kt\u00f3ry nazywano „Okopami \u015aw. Tr\u00f3jcy” Tam pozna\u0142em m.in. Ryszarda Buks\u0119. Wcze\u015bniej powsta\u0142a inicjatywa w Warszawie, na Solcu. Co miesi\u0105c odbywa\u0142y si\u0119 spotkania, od 1985 roku je\u017adzi\u0142em na nie do\u015b\u0107 cz\u0119sto. Stamt\u0105d przywozi\u0142em ulotki. Mieszka\u0142em na Rogozi\u0144skiego, blisko stacji Zasanie. Ba\u0142em si\u0119, nie raz, do domu t\u0119 paczk\u0119 z ulotkami zanosi\u0107, wi\u0119c my\u015bla\u0142em \u201erzuc\u0119 w krzaki\u201d. Du\u017cego wsparcia dla duszpasterstwa nauczycieli udziela\u0142 ksi\u0105dz Stanis\u0142aw Zarych. I to trwa\u0142o do 89. roku, gdy nasta\u0142a \u201enormalno\u015b\u0107\u201d. Potem przesta\u0142em je\u017adzi\u0107, ale pozna\u0142em w tym czasie wiele os\u00f3b. Do tej pory znam Jana \u017baryna, profesora z IPN. Wtedy to on jako m\u0142ody cz\u0142owiek organizowa\u0142 takie spotkania duszpasterskie. Tak to si\u0119 zacz\u0119\u0142o.<\/p>\n\n\n\n W 1989 roku uczy\u0142em w Szkole Podstawowej nr 13. Tam za\u0142o\u017cy\u0142em Ko\u0142o Solidarno\u015bci, jedno z pierwszych w Przemy\u015blu, a pierwsze po\u015br\u00f3d szk\u00f3\u0142 podstawowych. Potem zajmowa\u0142em si\u0119 tworzeniem Komisji Zak\u0142adowej Solidarno\u015bci, kt\u00f3ra obejmowa\u0142a ca\u0142y powiat. Je\u017adzi\u0142em do Or\u0142\u00f3w czy Krasiczyna. W tamtych czasach rzadko nauczyciele mieli samoch\u00f3d, ja akurat mia\u0142em. Wcze\u015bniej by\u0142em w Stanach, wi\u0119c mog\u0142em sobie pozwoli\u0107, \u017ceby kupi\u0107, a tak, to nie da\u0142oby si\u0119 z pensji nauczycielskiej. „Sekretariat” naszej Komisji mie\u015bci\u0142 si\u0119 w domu Pa\u0144stwa K. i R. \u017burawskich. Pami\u0119tam 15 czerwca \u201889, imieniny Jolanty, naszej znajomej. I w ten dzie\u0144 zosta\u0142em wybrany na Przewodnicz\u0105cego Komisji Zak\u0142adowej, zosta\u0142em szefem organizacji nauczycieli. Potem, w 1990 roku, odby\u0142 si\u0119 drugi Zjazd Solidarno\u015bci Regionalnej, tam zosta\u0142em wybrany w sk\u0142ad Zarz\u0105du Regionu, by\u0142em nawet sekretarzem, ale bardzo kr\u00f3tko. Taka dzia\u0142alno\u015b\u0107 typowo zwi\u0105zkowa mnie nie interesowa\u0142a za bardzo. By\u0142em w Solidarno\u015bci po to, by obali\u0107 i tworzy\u0107 nowy system, a nie by dzia\u0142a\u0107 jako zwi\u0105zek zawodowy. Poszed\u0142em do pracy w instytucjach, niekt\u00f3rzy mieli mi to za z\u0142e, bo przesta\u0142em pe\u0142ni\u0107 funkcj\u0119 sekretarza i zosta\u0142em w czerwcu 1990 roku wicekuratorem i przez cztery lata pe\u0142ni\u0142em bardzo wa\u017cn\u0105 funkcj\u0119 administracji wojew\u00f3dztwa przemyskiego. Od 1 kwietnia kuratorem by\u0142 wtedy Piotr Idzikowski. W pewnym momencie by\u0142a narada Regionalnej Sekcji NSSZ, byli ludzie z Przeworska, Jaros\u0142awia, z Lubaczowa. Wybierali\u015bmy w\u00f3wczas kuratora. Naszym pierwszym wskazaniem by\u0142 Wies\u0142aw Beck z Lubaczowa. I taka zapad\u0142a decyzja, \u017ceby poprzedni kurator odszed\u0142, a minister powo\u0142a\u0142 w. Becka. Nast\u0119pnego dnia w sobot\u0119 Wiesiek jednak zadzwoni\u0142, \u017ce z Lubaczowa jest za daleko, by doje\u017cd\u017ca\u0107 codziennie do Przemy\u015bla. Solidarno\u015b\u0107 wtedy by\u0142a na Grodzkiej, a ja by\u0142em w pracy. Dzwoni\u0142em do Jaros\u0142awia, Lubaczowa i telefonicznie poinformowa\u0142em, \u017ce W. Beck nie chce by\u0107 kuratorem. W trakcie tych rozm\u00f3w ustalili\u015bmy, \u017ce Piotr Idzikowski zostanie naszym kandydatem. I to Piotra zg\u0142osili\u015bmy do ministra. To by\u0142y trudne momenty, ale sama sprawa by\u0142a buduj\u0105ca. To nie by\u0142o tak, \u017ce to w\u0142adza proponuje, a Ministerstwo zatwierdza. My proponowali\u015bmy t\u0119 osob\u0119, kt\u00f3ra wydawa\u0142a nam si\u0119 najlepsza na to stanowisko. I to z Ministerstwa dzwoniono do mnie indywidualnie, bo okaza\u0142o si\u0119, \u017ce w Warszawie funkcj\u0119 dyrektora gabinetu ministra, pe\u0142ni\u0142a osoba, kt\u00f3r\u0105 zna\u0142em z duszpasterstwa, i pyta\u0142, czy to jest na pewno w\u0142a\u015bciwy kandydat. I w ten spos\u00f3b powo\u0142ano Piotra Idzikowskiego na kuratora o\u015bwiaty. To by\u0142y trudne czasy w kuratorium. By\u0142y problemy, by odwo\u0142ywa\u0107 poprzednich dyrektor\u00f3w, a my to prze\u017cywali\u015bmy. Istna wojna by\u0142a.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Here the old system clashed with the new system. The old one still had its influence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A\u00a3<\/strong>: Especially since at the beginning there was still no new law on the education system. It entered in September 1991, but we used it. The superintendent himself could make regulations for appointing directors. Now it's complicated that the superintendent doesn't have much power, he's an executor, more important is the Commission, the Teachers Union, parents. We made it so that to the Commission three people were put forward by the superintendent, and three by the school. When there was a tie, the superintendent himself decided who would be the school director. That was a bit of a trick we did. This was in effect until 1991. Then I was dismissed when the governments changed and the SLD came in. From 1994 I worked in local administration, I was head of the Department of Education at the City Hall. It was only then that the department was established in the city, before that the city was not in charge of schools, only kindergartens (there was one person in charge of kindergartens in the Department of Culture). In 1996, all schools were taken over by local governments. In Przemy\u015bl, two years earlier, the city was the governing body.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> And what did it look like then? Was it a good reform? Was it desired by the public?<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Rather, yes, previously it was handled by the state, the superintendent was the leading authority: he was in charge of management, finances, appointing principals, responsible for everything in the school. On the other hand, there was also a pedagogical supervisory body. And the superintendent performed these two functions simultaneously. When local governments took over the running of institutions and became the leading authorities, the superintendent was in charge of pedagogical supervision, doing inspections, visitations, checking the qualifications of candidates, the state of student knowledge. I think this was better, until now no one questions it. Yes, there was a problem as usual with money. Who was supposed to pay for it? It was invented that from the state budget, cities (local governments) would receive subsidies per pupil. This was calculated in detail. However, the money was less and less, at the beginning this subvention was calculated in such a way that it was quietly enough to run schools. Now, for a long time, the subvention is not enough and the city has to contribute from its budget. I don't know how it is today, but once in Przemy\u015bl, in the 1990s, the city added little from the budget, while in Warsaw, on the other hand, the authorities added almost 100% to the subvention. In our country at the beginning of the 21st century, no more than 3 percent was added. Let's note what disparities these were. The city could play a good role and either they gave money and education was a priority, or not. Now the city of Przemy\u015bl is adding 25 percent, and Warsaw has reduced because it is only adding 70 percent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n As for my activity in the Przemy\u015bl Cultural Society, I was a member at the end of the 1980s, and I only found out about its reactivation later. I was not invited to the reactivation meeting. I wasn't the only one, by the way. I learned that the election meeting was held, being at Calvary, on another occasion. I was not the only one surprised that some comrades were forgotten. I don't say this with resentment, but with mild surprise. When I received the invitation to the Society's meeting and Chairman Marek Kuchcinski was there, I thought it was his function from the old days. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What else can I boast about? I received a medal from the Metropolitan of Przemysl in recognition of my service to the Church of Przemysl.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Such things are also collected as much as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> I have never belonged to any party, i.e. since 1990 yes, but before that no. When I came to Przemysl, I could not work in a high school. One principal himself invited me for an interview, he knew that I worked at \"thirteen\" and wanted to hire me, but the party. I didn't belong to it, so he couldn't. He suggested that I at least enroll in the ZNP (Union of Polish Teachers), but I refused. That was in 1986.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> This hindered professional development.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Tak, ale ja si\u0119 nie przejmowa\u0142em. W drugiej szkole r\u00f3wnie\u017c dyrektor wprost powiedzia\u0142, \u017ce „\u017c\u0105daj\u0105” od nich, by przyjmowali tych, kt\u00f3rzy nale\u017c\u0105 do partii. To by\u0142o z kolei w 1988 roku. W Gliwicach tak\u017ce pracowa\u0142em w szkole podstawowej, ale mia\u0142em r\u00f3wnie\u017c godziny w liceum. Podejrzewam, \u017ce gdybym zosta\u0142 tam d\u0142u\u017cej, otrzyma\u0142bym pe\u0142ny etat. W du\u017cym mie\u015bcie nie k\u0142adziono takiego nacisku na zapisanie si\u0119 do partii. Gdy przyjecha\u0142em do Przemy\u015bla, w pierwszym roku pobytu, nie poszed\u0142em na poch\u00f3d 1 maja. Zosta\u0142em ukarany, nie zap\u0142acono mi za godziny tego dnia, 7 godzin potr\u0105cono mi z pensji. W Gliwicach nigdy nie chodzili\u015bmy na pochody, nikt tego nie \u017c\u0105da\u0142. Tutaj w Przemy\u015blu bardziej chciano si\u0119 pokaza\u0107. To od w\u0142adz lokalnych zale\u017ca\u0142o, jak du\u017cy k\u0142adziono nacisk. Z osobami z Gliwic do tej pory mam kontakt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I was also awarded the Cross of Freedom and Solidarity. You could receive it if you were active for a minimum of one year in the opposition. I had the difficulty that I had no record by the SB, so I had to get witnesses who confirmed my activities. As a result, I will receive such a Cross in September.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Based on these statements is the Cross awarded? Where will the ceremony be held?<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Most likely in Rzeszow. The decision has already been made by the President of Poland.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (By order of the President of the Republic of Poland on February 1, 2022. Adam Lozinski was awarded the Cross of Freedom and Solidarity. The decoration ceremony took place on September 23 at the IPN Branch in Rzeszow)<\/p>\n\n\n\n More than once I was surprised that teachers knew and had materials available about Katyn, for example, but did not use them. Regarding Msgr. Ignatius Tokarczuk, We had a good relationship, first in the 1980s I participated with teachers from the teachers' pastoral ministry in meetings to celebrate holidays or his birthday. Many times I went to him for private talks. They were always very fruitful, he convinced us that there would be freedom, that Free Poland would come. We didn't believe it, but he was right. Archbishop Tokarczuk had a nephew who was an MP. Through this nephew we got to know each other better. I was the one who gave the archbishop the information that his sister had died, I even offered a ride to the funeral, but the archbishop refused due to his health. <\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> I wanted to ask you about the time when you became an MP in 1997 and co-founded the commission for the reform of the new administrative division.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> This was a difficult issue for me. There was a dispute as to how far the government authority should reach, and how far the local government authority should reach. I have the impression that this problem has not been fully resolved to this day. The question was whether there should be local government or government administration at the provincial level. Secondly, the Accord of the Center since 1990 was my party, which I joined and I am loyal to it. Although there was a time when the PC brought in perhaps 12 deputies and a few senators to the Sejm. Out of 460, that was a drop.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> But you co-founded the government at the time, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Yes, we had a deputy minister for roads: Krzysztof Tch\u00f3rzewski. Also Antoni Tokarczuk was a minister, Jan Szyszko from our grouping was Minister of Forestry. These were also dilemmas. Even before the elections, our organization was involved in the issue of administration and division. The commission headed by K. Tch\u00f3rzewski proposed 32 provinces. That was the idea. There are documents about this in the archives in Przemy\u015bl. The Przemy\u015bl province was supposed to be larger and reach all the way to Zamosc and the Bieszczady Mountains. That fell through. Meanwhile, the government proposed 12 provinces. Our province was to be Eastern Lesser Poland.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Would it be acreage-wise similar to the current size of the province?<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Yes, similarly. There were disputes over Debica, Gorlice. As a result of the talks (it took a long time) 16 provinces came out. The question remained as to what powers the marshal should have. So far this has been clashing, and this is changing. Not the provincial governor, but the marshal is the host of the province. The provincial governor is the government's representative on the ground, and has a controlling and supporting role. Then there is the county. This is a local government administration, although it contains some government organizations, such as sanitation. This is such a different division. And the third level: local government-municipality. There was also a dispute over Przemy\u015bl and more. Przemy\u015bl was supposed to be a normal city and there was supposed to be a Przemy\u015bl district. I remember that we submitted an amendment that all cities previously provinces became cities with county rights. There were dual powers, that is, municipal and county, in one body. Is this a good thing? At the time we thought that because of this there would be more money, one administration. It used to be argued whose road it was, but now all roads in the city are cities. Investments are also cities, the government has no right to invest anything in the city. A good example is the eastern bypass. It was the city that applied for the bypass and did it on its own, although the government, as a result of the support of MPs, subsidized this investment. With the western bypass, there is a dispute. If it is outside the city, the state bears the cost, but if in the city, the city bears the cost. Also the maintenance of the road, lighting, heating. Is this better?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tak samo miasto grodzkie. To mam na swoim koncie. Tak samo w sprawie gimnazjum. Pami\u0119tam, wed\u0142ug mojego rozeznania, jak dyskutowali\u015bmy w latach 90. Byli\u015bmy przekonani, \u017ce szko\u0142a podstawowa jest za d\u0142uga. Pami\u0119tam, jak uczy\u0142em jeszcze, by\u0142 taki ch\u0142opak, mia\u0142 trudno\u015bci w nauce, repetowa\u0142. Po sz\u00f3stej klasie , poszed\u0142 do innej szko\u0142y i uko\u0144czy\u0142 „podstaw\u00f3wk\u0119” wcze\u015bniej, ni\u017c jego r\u00f3wie\u015bnicy. Szko\u0142a podstawowa by\u0142a za d\u0142uga, nie by\u0142o podzia\u0142u na specjalizacje, \u017ceby przygotowywa\u0107 do konkretnego kierunku, wszystko jednakowe. Chcieli\u015bmy to zmieni\u0107, \u017ceby szko\u0142a by\u0142a kr\u00f3tsza, \u017ceby by\u0142a jaka\u015b specjalizacja. To si\u0119 nie uda\u0142o do ko\u0144ca, bo w gimnazjach, te podzia\u0142y na specjalizacje te\u017c by\u0142y nier\u00f3wne. Ale nasze miasto, jako miasto na prawach powiatu te\u017c przyj\u0119\u0142o te szko\u0142y. W Jaros\u0142awiu by\u0142a inna sytuacja, tam miasto ma tylko przedszkola i szko\u0142y podstawowe, ponadgimnazjalnymi zajmuje si\u0119 powiat. A w Przemy\u015blu wszystko jest zarz\u0105dzane przez prezydenta. I to si\u0119 zmieni\u0142o w wyniku naszej reformy. Teraz odwr\u00f3cono znowu. Czy to dobrze? Ja nie wiem, na tym ju\u017c si\u0119 nie znam.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> It's hard for me to judge, since I studied in middle school, I would have to go back to school to compare the two. However, in the new system, this childhood age is extended, and in high school it is already time to grow up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A\u00a3<\/strong>: I think elementary school should be shorter, and middle school and high school should be combined on the model of the pre-war small high school, for example.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Maybe a 6 + 6 or 7 + 5 model would work. I agree that it could develop in that direction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> This is the issue of these double reforms. Especially since I have been involved with education all my life, first as a teacher, then in government administration, then as a superintendent, in addition, I was involved in education as an MP. For nine years I worked at the Podkarpackie Teacher Education Center. I was not a pedagogical employee, but I organized courses and trainings. We received grants and used them for various purposes, organized courses and even distributed food. I was in charge of organizing improvement. I was asked if I was good at it, because it was not a very responsible organizational function. But I survived.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP<\/strong>: I would like to ask you about the establishment of the National Eastern European University. I know that you participated in it and were in the authorities of the university.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> I was chairman of the Convention. There were two authorities: Rector and Senate and the Convention. That's what it was called. The Convention was made up of employees from outside the school. The chairman of the Convention and the Rector were two positions high in the administration. I was chairman of the Convention, and before that I was president of the Przemy\u015bl Academy Society. This Society was founded back in the 1990s, in the 93rd or 94th. The late Tadeusz Sawicki president of the city, who was the first president of the Society, was still alive. Momentarily Marek Kuchcinski was also the chairman, and then I became chairman when I was already an MP. At that time I had the opportunities to create and organize this school. It's hard for me to say, but Jaroslaw had better arrangements at the Ministry. They were two years ahead of us. Our school was established in 2001, and theirs in 1999. There was a crush at the Ministry, the Minister came and wondered why the two establishments were so close to each other. He proposed to create a joint Przemy\u015bl-Jaroslavl school. But neither the authorities of Przemy\u015bl nor Yaroslavl wanted to agree on this. When we had more influence in the AWS, we finally succeeded in creating our school. The concept was for the University of Rzeszow to merge with several smaller schools. And the goal was to create a main academy in Rzeszow and smaller vocational schools in smaller cities: Przemy\u015bl, Krosno, Tarnobrzeg. Then it turned out that they were being created in smaller towns, such as Przeworsk. This school of ours was supposed to be humanistic, having contacts with the East , to make agreements with Lviv and Ukraine. Did it succeed later? It turned out that the humanities are at a good level. For example, Jerzy Bartminski, who is one of the best Polish scholars in Poland and the brother of Father Stanislaw Bartminski, parish priest in Krasiczyn and local government activist Jan, taught here. The humanities haven't quite worked out here, I don't think there is even a Polish philology anymore. The focus is on science and technical majors. Humanities are going away. Nowhere, not even in Lublin, has a university been established that pursues eastern politics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP<\/strong>: With what is happening abroad, there is potential for such a university. The idea was already there, and so many years later it is still relevant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> Maybe that will still happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP<\/strong>: At the Carpathian Europe forum, there was recently mentioned the idea of establishing a cadre training university in Ukraine. But as far as I know, it is a very difficult thing to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> I think too many of these universities are being created. Maybe if things were different... I remember when I was a student in the 1970s, a few percent of young people were in college. It was 3, 4, 5 percent, that much. And now? It's like this, it will never be like this in any community, that the majority will have the potential to study. Yes, they can study, but what level will it be and what will be the results. And also, are there needs? We not only need educated people, but also such for other professions. And this is also the difference, parents have ambitions, send to schools, support with tutoring. And what is the point? Is that the point? Sometimes I read various books, for example, Stanislaw Zarych. He was from a small village and a school was sent to him. That was the thing, that in a natural way these young boys or girls... mostly boys, however, were discovered. They themselves were intelligent, supported financially and so on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> Last question. I wanted to ask about the city council. You were a councilman for 12 years, including the chairman of the City Council. How do you recall it? How has the city changed during this time, because in three terms you can evaluate it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> I did not feel these changes. As for the roads, it is positive that it was possible to build the eastern bypass. This is some positive aspect, the bridge. I myself rarely drive on it, I mostly go through the city. Public transportation has changed. These roads often break down, Bielska Street was recently repaired and such holes are already there. As for education, teachers by law are supposed to reach a certain level of salary. As there was not so much money, this should have been equalized. This has been in effect since 2009 , so it's been a dozen years. The snag was that little money was added to the budget in the city and teachers did not reach this level, only in January they were paid this equalization. I remember one year compensation was given for more than 3 million. In my opinion, it should be that this money in that previous year could have been given for extra classes, for function and incentive allowances. And this money was then given equally. Well, and it turned out that teachers were given equally. Some treated it as a fourteenner. There was such an allowance that they even got PLN 1,000 each. I more than once spoke about the fact that they pay teachers for free, without providing work. This is a failure, I could not convince the Council. Now I do not know how it is, but this system has been preserved. As for management, there is no team in our country that wants to sit in one circle and do something. This is the biggest shortcoming. I think in local governments in general. Everyone wants to do something, some don't. I was in such a good situation that I worked part-time and could devote myself to the Council. When someone works, for example, in Rzeszow, he doesn't have time to devote to the Council. These are such dilemmas, now a term of 5 years. I myself voluntarily gave up another start. In my opinion, local government is needed but really the selection of candidates for councilors. I know that Law and Justice organized preparations. The law is not so easy. The law on the education system in 1991 had a dozen pages, now they are hundreds. This is how they are composed. Is this good or bad? I know that before the war it was also bad. And in Przemy\u015bl it is so that the Council does not pass the discharge, but the Regional Audit Office gives a positive opinion. And that's it, there are no consequences. The Council could initiate the removal of the president, but is that good or bad? This I do not know. But the governmental and administrative body I generally evaluate positively. How positively? We decide for ourselves, the Council can do a lot. It's good that I don't have to worry about it anymore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> The Lord has already done his part.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A\u00a3<\/strong>: Yes I did as much as I could. But I have no reproaches. There was such an idea in the city to socialize kindergartens, that is, to give them to organizations to run them, but there was a great rebellion. As a result, maybe it would be a positive thing, because we have 14 public kindergartens, and there are more than 20 non-public ones. There are so many of these institutions, maybe they perform their function better, they are cheaper for the city because the city pays 50% subsidies. Then maybe they are better?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Pami\u0119tam, \u017ce pojechali\u015bmy kiedy\u015b do Nowego S\u0105cza, poniewa\u017c tam r\u00f3wnie\u017c by\u0142a taka inicjatywa. Jedna z redaktorek \u017bycia Przemyskiego napisa\u0142a o mnie artyku\u0142 pod tytu\u0142em \u201eJestem jaki jestem\u201d. W\u0142a\u015bciwie to by\u0142 wywiad ze mn\u0105. Nawi\u0105zywa\u0142 on do tej reformy. By\u0142y protesty, ale prezydent T. Sawicki, tak wspominaj\u0105 inni pracownicy Wydzia\u0142u, wierzy\u0142 w t\u0119 inicjatyw\u0119 i mia\u0142 zaufanie do nas. Powiedzia\u0142 mi, \u017ce ja jestem „uczciwy do piwnicy”. Nie wiem, co to znaczy\u0142o. Jeszcze raz powiem: samorz\u0105dy powinny by\u0107, w\u0142adza powinna by\u0107 bli\u017cej ludzi, ale ja tej w\u0142adzy teraz nie bardzo czuj\u0119. Mamy w Przemy\u015blu Rady Osiedlowe, co\u015b w rodzaju najni\u017cszej w\u0142adzy w samorz\u0105dzie. W naszym mie\u015bcie, tu gdzie mieszkamy jest to Osiedle Warne\u0144czyka. Ono si\u0119ga od ul. Wo\u0142odyjowskiego do Salezjan\u00f3w. A po drugiej stronie W\u0119gierskiej i Grunwaldzkiej jest Osiedle Kmiecie, kt\u00f3re jest od Placu Konstytucji a\u017c do Ostrowskiej. Pas ziemi mi\u0119dzy Sanem a Grunwaldzk\u0105. To powinno by\u0107 skupisko ludzi, kt\u00f3rzy maj\u0105 wsp\u00f3lne interesy. Jakie s\u0105 wsp\u00f3lne interesy cz\u0142owieka z Placu Konstytucji i cz\u0142owieka z Ostrowskiej? Zawsze podkre\u015bla\u0142em, \u017ce trzeba to zmieni\u0107. Mamy 21 osiedli i one moim zdaniem powinny mie\u0107 wi\u0119ksze uprawnienia, dysponowa\u0107 swoim bud\u017cetem. To jest ni\u017csza administracja, kt\u00f3ra r\u00f3wnie\u017c zabiera g\u0142os na sesji. I to nie jest najlepiej rozwi\u0105zane.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> I agree. They have direct contact with the people, they know best what is happening in their area, and their voice is not heard. And they are invited to a session, they will say something, and their opinion is not binding, no one counts with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP:<\/strong> You as a historian surely know this best.<\/p>\n\n\n\n AL:<\/strong> What about Ukraine? Well, exactly. I believe it's going all the way towards easing our relations. I hope so. So far it has been uninteresting there. In Ukraine, they are looking for their ideology, they are looking for what they have in common, they are reading their history, just like other countries. Ukraine is a young country. As I remember the early 1990s, when we had contacts with Lviv and beyond. In Lviv, the image of the Mother of God and the flag hung in schools. This was the basis of their ideas. And now an example of a cruel, painful case in Lviv. On the building of School No. 10 there is a bust of Roman Shuchevych, one of those responsible for accepting the Volhynian Massacre. School No. 10 is one of two so-called Polish schools, near the Maria Magdalena Church. I once asked the headmistress what the issue was. I heard that this is what the authorities decided, and this is how it must be in a Polish school as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n PP<\/strong>: In Ukraine they have them as heroes. But even now, during the war, heroes are being created.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A\u00a3<\/strong>: They make their history in a painful way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n <\/p>\n\n\n\n Interviewed by Piotr Pilch<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n Piotr Pilch: Jak si\u0119 zacz\u0119\u0142a Pana dzia\u0142alno\u015b\u0107 opozycyjna? Adam \u0141ozi\u0144ski: W Przemy\u015blu mieszkam od 1984 roku, a moja dzia\u0142alno\u015b\u0107 w Solidarno\u015bci zacz\u0119\u0142a si\u0119 wcze\u015bniej, w Gliwicach. W\u0142a\u015bciwie tam by\u0142y pocz\u0105tki, by\u0142em m\u0142odym nauczycielem, bo drugi rok pracy, kiedy w\u0142a\u015bnie powsta\u0142 zwi\u0105zek „Solidarno\u015b\u0107”. Akurat pewne wzgl\u0119dy sprawi\u0142y, \u017ce jako m\u0142ody nauczyciel, znalaz\u0142em si\u0119 w jego w\u0142adzach. 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